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Heres a question: why balance the other engines to the level of rc at all? LET freighter locked engines be stupidly powerful. They need to be.

Wow i had totally missed Jeff's two posts at the top of page 3...
#1 18 new T21 engines: AWESOME! that should be enough to provide both variety in types and within types. now make some more T18-20 and we'll be in good shape.
#2 yes, turning is MUCH more important than thrust for the main reason that you have to turn to track your target before you can even think of thrusting to stay with it... and if you have range at all then you dont even have to thrust to stay with it necessarily.
the ratio between thrust and turning is a meaningless number imo, the real question is this: is it enough turning? is it enough thrust? if not who gives a flying fuck what the ratio is? it provides an interesting anecdotal summary of the engine's capabilities.... but not much else. From a thrust-turning ratio i might guess at what it might be used for (SDs like a higher ratio, while lower is generally better everywhere else), but the specific stats are by far more informative...

No they dont need to be stupidly powerful. We need a working balance sheet so prevent OP items being added in the future and Freighters are.....well freighters....They should be heavy and turn a bit slow.

Balance is very important in a online game, if items are too good there is no room to add new items.
Keep in mind that we have tech 21 engines coming very soon.

so, screw all the DMs that are lvl 500-1.5k, but beef the endgame chars that can get Engines 21 in a snap?

Fucked Up Beyond Words....
FUBW.

Hes trying to say that under lvl2k's(which I hope will be minimum level for Oly) will make do with RC/RC*/PRC, and will move ok.
Oly go'ers for Eng21 get the bonus of a cooler engine.
Next point, youre acting like you are being forbidden from ever dropping drones as an Engi. Its a slight agil nerf, get over it Clae you fucktard.

Also keep in mind that the stats on test are not yet final. We are still discussing stats, looking at player feedback and tweaking where it's needed.

Kay.
Didnt you say summit about inbuilt modifications on Engines, or did I misread?
I checked like, ALL my engines in my Sphere on test, and saw like, nothing like a mod on any.

I testes PLT and PRC and new changes reduce their stats quality .
But to be honest i did not see any mayor reduce in my agility ( trust is weaker ofc) . My DM with PRC and 11 infernos 5 armadas few titans and 2 charge drones with full fight gear does not feel so bad moving around . I did not try out normal RCharge or any other engine cos they dont really interest me .
2xBut keep in mind all that is droped by ai should always be weaker then one builded by players and do not mess with high build cost engines .

Jeff you should really finnish all the changes u have in mind quick cos it is kind of terrible that you change the stats not anymore on 1 class cos it is op or something but you are changing gear setups for whole player base on almoast weekly basis . We can hardly keep up and if you continue on this to much longer we wont be able to keep up ...

Pretty much completely redoing all the stats again right now.

So the thing with Rhino Charge is that if it's intended for Rhino's with 3-4 million weight, then it makes sense to actually increase its stats, but also increase it's weight by a million or more, so that it stays useful for freighters, but then becomes less useful to s SD in a 500k weight ship. So right now I'm increasing both the weight of all engines and also increasing the bonus to stats they get for being heavy.

Also, I made that table for stealthy engines and now stealthy engines are coming out to be much more powerful than they were before. Voom is making sure that I give Snipers good semi-stealth engines.

There's already a tool available to control turn rate:

/maxturn X

set X between 200 and 400 and everything should be great

Yeah but new players wont know about that. And if you have to use that on every single engine up to tech 20 then that's just stupid. A working balance sheet is far superior.

Why must you worship the balance sheet? If one item should be better than the sheets say it should, ignore the bloody thing and make it better anyway! Admins originally decided all stats by hand, nothing is forcing you to obey the balance sheets.

Nothing is forcing us but the balance sheets are used for a reason. Having several content devs manually deciding stats on their own has resulted in countless overpowered items in the game.

As usual, wait and test out the new stats before you start crying. You can look at what's on test right now and if you see something really messed up like a stealth engine that has ended up with high vis then let us know. For minor stats issues just wait until the test has been updated with the latest stats.
We had a good discussion on our dev chat that ended with Jeff redoing pretty much all stats.