Well, that certainly prevents the brokenness problem. TBH, i dont doubt that someone on a higher level team has already tried that out...it's a pretty cool idea, too bad it doesn't work! Sort of.

Another problem that Gunner faces, like you pointed out, is lack of content. Their damage types are limited, they have very little in the way of gear that is actually specifically meant for them. On top of that, the way missiles were made was, while very encompassing of two damage types, not terribly fun in its creation. SS is the game with space rats and scruples and the Mad Scientist, so it seems kinda...out of place, having all those missile launchers be every 5 levels, and only available from one place.

It would really be great if there were new places to get BP's for missiles and launchers, of a large variety of techs. Really, any AI that uses missiles could use a different type of missiles; Scruplex missiles, Kilrathi Thorns, any number of ridiculous names are possible and would make the entire class extremely amusing, similar to engineer!

Thanks for saving me the cost of a cerb aug and a reclass to gunner.

As for the whole aura/destruction business, i dont know if the current Auras are overpowered, but it does seem unfair that gunner is limited to less DPS than FC. If you want to make things more interesting, make enemies that get your aura benefits or something, that could be cool and make FC a much more interactive class, while beefing gunner at the same time.

Also, if a good formula for gunner damage could be created, i dont see a reason to put a cap on the % damage beef they could generate. Ideally it would be limited by how much DPS THEY could deal out, rather than a hard cap. That way a better gunner is...well, a better gunner.

Perhaps the problem, then, lies in the way FC items are obtained? It does seem a bit too easy to just be able to buy the best FC items in the game from a base. In protected space, even!

The thing is, I really want to avoid a bandaid being put on the problem and the class remaining as it is for another two years. The problem goes far beneath the surface, and unless you fix it all the way to the bottom there are always going to be repercussions, and at best it just wont be as interesting of a class as it could have been otherwise.

If the debuff depended on DPS per max shield, that would mean really easy to kill AI would get a huge debuff, while bases or ubers would get a tiny one.

I'm afraid I'm not the best person to talk about Gunner rebalances or new Gunner content considering I have no experience playing a Gunner at all. I tried to fill some Gunner content gaps with Red Photon, but it seems I was unsuccessfull with that. I have never seen the weapon which I thought would be really, really overpowered in action ever.

I think our current plan for Gunner content was some cool debuff missiles, but you do raise a good point. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong) A gunner's effectiveness does not scale well with gear: A Gunner's DPS is negligible, the debuff is gear independant and so are missiles.


Let's do a little bit of time travel. Iq' Bana is endgame, 3k DPS is top notch. You are the best Gunner ever and do 4k DPS which through some magical formula results in 20% destruction. Now, a few years later, you do 40k DPS, what's the destruction % supposed to be now? 2 more years, tech 25 was just released, you get your hands on a buffered, forcefull, dynamic titan class mining lasers and do 700k DPS. What should the % be?
The definition of "endgame" changes, quickly. I'm not a mathmagician, but I think it would be close to impossible to invent a formula that will give proper results without having to be changed every few months. Hardcaps aren't very nice, I agree, but they are neseccary in some cases.


A Gunner can use t0 AI base weapons if he just wants to apply the debuff. That would be even cheaper than a FC's aura


I disagree with that suggestion. I don't want to nerf FCs and just beefing destruction would make Gunners more usefull, but it would not fix the gear/effectivenes ratio which I think is the problem. More missiles would be nice, but I don't like the idea of missiles being a Gunners primary DPS. I want Gunners to be the guys with the big ships and big guns. But maybe that's just the way I think.

I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes sense to be honest. Don't consider this to be a proper dev response, it's just random brainfarts

On an unrelated note: Stop making new replies everytime I hit "submit".
Seriously. Stop it.

edit: Thank you

That's exactly the problem I forsaw. Therefore, there should be a modifier based on the size of the shield bank. The larger it is, the easier it is to debuff them, but you still have to do more damage to get the same debuff. Ideally. Not sure how to write that mathematically.






The thing i was thinking of is that as your damage increases, the difficulty of the enemy decreases in general, anyway. For example, if you're doing bana with 4k DPS from the gunner, then likely the zerker isn't doing more than, say, 10x that. Now a few years later the same gunner comes back and can do 40k dps on his own...so what's the point in even bringing along the zerker? Certainly they'd give a larger debuff, but as their DPS passes a certain point the debuff stops even being necessary, making it a moot point.

The key point is the formula. If it's made well, then it will be an awesome work of awesome, and a hard cap wont even be needed. It just sucks having to turn my math brain on after 3 years...




The trouble is, I can't really see how viable that is as an option. At the moment, so many classes are already using the different ways to do damage; If you make their primary DPS come from their weapons, then they become a crossover between a zerker, a sniper, and a FC, but that doesn't do as well at any of those things as the other classes.




Sorry

Gunner is the debuff class. Why not give them debuff weapons that not only provide said debuff, but hit hard enough to be worth as dps weapons?

Lower the destruction power as needed.

Class locked, weapon based, effects for the LOSS. For debuffs at least. For distributing bonuses, eh, go for it.

Gunner is about hit hard. "Further blows more devastating" or something like that. They shouldn't be limited to what weapons they use and they shouldn't loose their destruction benefit.

Dumbass. That kind of thinking makes Gunner look like a FC that gets aggro and is less effective than said FC. And runs out of ammo. And has less defense than the FC.

I agree that Gunner should be able to use any weapon, actually. The effects should be a part of the class. At most, they should have to equip an item similar to a drone controller that adds effects to their attacks.

If it was my way, Gunner's destruction would be replaced with a stat that improves all debuffs. Like, 100% or 200% bonus when leveled up fully.

Then, add a multitude of weapons, ships, and gear to facilitate the debuffing.

For example, a gunner has a flaming catapult that causes massive AoE splash damage, a 5 or 6 bullet excomm-like weapon that lowers target speed by like 30% and range by 50%, and his final weapon being a laser that reduces the target's damage by 25% and elect by 50%.

Big debuffs. Practical debuffs. Valuable debuffs. Valuable enough to be worth having instead of another sniper or a second zerk on squad runs.